Transcript
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Hello, my friends and fellow animal lovers, welcome to the Story of my Pet podcast.
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I am Julie Marty Pearson, your host, proud fur mom, pet lover and all-around animal advocate.
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I'm so happy to have you here to listen to the incredible pet stories that I have collected from around the world.
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I hope you enjoy this episode and I can't wait to share this pet story with you.
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Hello, my friends and fellow animal lovers, welcome to another episode of the Story of my Pet podcast.
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I am your host, as always, julie Marty Pearson, and I'm excited to bring you yet another new guest to the podcast, some great new stories that we will be sharing today.
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I want to welcome John Garcing to the podcast.
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Hello and welcome.
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Hi Julie, Lovely to be here.
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Thank you so much for asking me on.
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Yes, I appreciate you being here, and can you tell all the listeners where you are coming from?
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Yeah, I'm on the Greek island of.
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Rhodes in the Mediterranean Aegean area.
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This is where I live and this is where I've lived for the past seven years I.
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I can't imagine how amazingly beautiful that place is, so I will transport myself in my mind I always say if you ever make it out of this neck of the woods, just drop me a line and we'll sort you out I definitely will.
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Okay, so I'm gonna tell listeners a little bit about you.
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John is a human dog relationship coach, educational writer, shelter, shelter advocate and musician.
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He had a dog daycare service in London for 10 years and he got bitten by the shelter bug I know that bug well Whilst helping to run a shelter in Zambia back in 2011.
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Soon after he relocated to Greece, as he just said, where he rehabilitates shelter dogs and has created an education program endorsed by the Greek Ministry of Education.
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That's amazing Teaching young children the importance of looking after dogs and the lessons we learn from our relationship to them so important.
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We've got to educate the kids, because they are the ones that are going to continue to save the animals.
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Exactly, and when you work in many different countries, you have to be mindful of cultural aspects.
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You have to be mindful of the fact that not all nations have had onion animals for as long as we have in the UK and in America, and you just have to be mindful of that.
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And you don't want to go out and preach, but you want to look at people's natural affinity to working with dogs and help them with that and be there to answer questions if people need it.
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That's so important and I've even seen that here.
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I'm in California and locally there's areas where they're canvassing educating people about why spay and neuter is important, what the benefits are, because sometimes people just don't understand that little things like that are actually helping your pets live longer and be healthier.
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So I can imagine for you, having worked in several different countries, you're running into cultural differences that are much broader than that.
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Before we get into that, have you always been an animal lover?
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Did you have pets growing up as a child?
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Yeah, I've had animals since I was very young and I also was lucky enough to work in riding stables in the Alps when I was growing up as a teenager, so I spent a lot of time with horses as well.
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I totally fell in love with them.
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So any noble and stunning and yeah, I grew up in a kind of old school environment where the dogs were generally outside dogs.
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They got the same amount of affection and love as any, as any person could give a dog, and it was a kind of an effort.
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There was an effortlessness about it was there was no technical kind of dog training stuff.
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It was all just very clear about what we need.
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These are boundaries, need clarity, lots of the love and affection, constant reinforcement, and so there was no need for trying to get down and technical with all the aspects of that dog training.
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One of the things I hung back to is that I love that kind of natural symbiosis between humans and companion animals.
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I'm a big advocate for that and I really want things to get back to basics.
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I think that's so important because everybody has their own perspective of what that looks like, but a lot of people need the basics, and the basics help the dog to be successful in whatever environment they're living in, whatever family or home or whatever it has to be.
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So you worked, you had a dog daycare service in London.
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How did that come about for you to start that?
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Well, I started working with dogs in 2005 in Bristol, a town, a city in southwestern England, and initially it was just a question.
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I was playing in a band.
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Before that, my life was.
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I went from playing in like a rock band training.
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I was training as an actor in London.
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First I went to playing in a band and all of a sudden my life completely changed and I needed some money and I thought what can I do?
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I bumped into this guy in the street one day and we just went chatting because he had a load of dogs and he could see that I had a natural affinity to them and I was just super passionate about me and your nice dogs and he just offered me a job on the spot.
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Would you like to come and work with me and I can teach you everything I know and I can teach you everything I know.
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And I was like, yeah, I was down for it because I'd just moved to a new city and I'd lost the job I'd got because the company folded.
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So I was in a brand new city with a new flat and no job.
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So I thought, yeah, let's give it a bash.
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And what I found early on is I found it really easy to build relationships with the guardians, the families of these dogs, because when I met them, at the end of every day I would always tell them exactly what I'd seen, what I'd observed, what I'd noticed.
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And the more I got to know these people socially sometimes or whatever I would see the parallels and aspects of their characters and how that manifested itself in the dog's behavior.
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And having worked as an actor and studied body language and things like that, I just thought this is so fascinating and it's really given me a handle into the way that I observe the animal and I want to know more about that.
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So I started to do more about psychology.
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I'm from a very affable Irish ground, very friendly, and I just thought all of these aspects are perfect.
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I'm outdoors, I'm with these wonderful animals, I meet really nice people that are heavily invested in their dog and these wonderful animals and really nice people that are heavily invested in their dog, and that's what really turned me on to doing it.
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So when I moved to London there was a huge boom of people taking dogs out, but I'd noticed it become a real money-making thing and there was very little investment from the people towards the owners or the families in this occasion, and I thought that's a huge part of the equation missing.
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And that's what led me down that route and got really passionate about the not the dog about the relationship part and how they work together, the whole idea of symbiosis no, that's so important.
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My education's in psychology, so I totally get all the things you just said, and when I volunteered and worked for a while in a shelter, I saw it too.
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I think humans like to look at an animal reacting a certain way and assume that's how they are all the time.
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They don't realize that their environment, just like people, impacts how they're behaving and reacting and all of that.
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And when a dog's in a shelter, for example, they're going to be acting a certain way because of it, because of the noise and the uncertainty, but it's the same.
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When they're put into a home, how does the home set up?
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What's the environment, what's the family, what are the, the dynamics?
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All of that impacts the dog's behavior and it sounds like that's really what you honed in on and saw the importance of working with all entire family to make a dog fit in the way they need to yeah, absolutely.
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I 100 with that.
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And it's funny because over in greece the last four or five of my clients are.
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They're either psychoanalysts or psychologists, just quite pure coincidence.
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Sometimes I'm talking to them and I'm not saying don't know the stuff I'm telling you, because that's surely exactly what you teach, and they're like yeah, we do know that, but we just want to hear it from you because you're in a different area and I'm like you don't need me to tell you any of this stuff?
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It's really basically a lot of it.
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So that's why I'm very reticent and I don't was no remit for the job I was going to do A friend of mine who runs Enniford Ortonage.
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She's an absolute legend.
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She's called Rachel Merton.
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She runs Enniford Ortonage in National Park in Zambia and she just called me and said they need your help.
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John, no one's going to come to Southern Africa and help these guys.
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But I want to ask you to a challenge.
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When I went over, I didn't know anyone there.
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I didn't know anything about the culture.
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I was pretty green.
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I'd only been working with dogs professionally for six years and no job or course could have prepared me for that work.
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Because I was dealing with the culture, I was dealing with the sociology, I was dealing with the police force, I was dealing with the individual cultural problems as well, as the dogs were just a tiny part of the equation.
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That's what led me down that route, because it's the whole of the thing that encapsulates the magic of the fact that we have a relationship with another species, and I think that, as long as you always bear that in mind, it means it's always a source of magic, it's always a source of wonder, and that's why I continue to love doing this job.
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Yeah, I think it's so important because I think sometimes we forget they're animals, they're sentient beings, they're impacted by their experience and changes and all of those things that sometimes, oh, it's a dog, it's just going to do dog things.
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Well, maybe it doesn't know what dog things are, and especially if they're coming off the street or they're in a shelter, we don't know always what their history is.
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So in Zambia, were you dealing specifically with shelter dogs?
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What was the situation there?
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Well, it was a completely self-funded trip.
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I did do a little bit of private training on the side for people.
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I also put on concerts music concerts to raise money, but the job really was.
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I had to first of all identify there was a huge amount of chaos there.
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There's generally a lot of chaos in shelters and, as you said directly earlier, behavior is contextual.
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By changing the context, by making it more stable, giving them some structure, I knew I could create a much calmer environment.
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People that are expecting people to come off the street, walk in, pick a dog and leave, and that just wasn't happening, because as soon as you walked in there, it was just pandemonium and it was scary.
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A lot of the Zambian culture is a beautiful culture.
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It's one of those countries in Africa where they don't have the tribal infighting.
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It's a very peaceful and safe country.
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A lot of the emerging classes were starting to really want to have dogs, but there was no situation in place that would inspire them to do this.
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What I had to do is make it a place where people would walk in and it would be an interesting place where they could make a decision about the dogs they wanted.
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But the first thing I had to do was I had to split some of the groups up.
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So dogs, correct dogs with the right dogs to bring the best out of each other.
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Because who's better to teach a dog than another dog?
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I think I'm constantly.
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I always have plenty of dogs at my disposal because they all teach different things and you can use that to advantage so beautifully if you know how to do that.
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So I took certain dogs with other ones and then I made some.
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We made some individual kennels, pairs of dogs to go in.
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And then we changed the feeding habits.
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We made the feeding very structured.
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I made the handlers learn to spend a few minutes every day just working with hand feeding and by inhibition and things like that.
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Then we started working on the mechanical side, putting collars on.
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Some of these dogs have never had a collar on in their life and next leave without a collar on and be perfect on a leash.
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I have a specific experience of taking an older puppy out of a kennel at a shelter and putting a leash on it, and he's what's happening.
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What's happening?
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What are you doing?
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Because they've never had a weapon before, so all those things are still important for them to get used to.
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It sounds like in Zambia there were really things that maybe people would think were basic.
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But even in any shelter environment they don't realize there are things the dog has to get used to, otherwise they're not being set up to be a success in whatever family they're going into.
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So that sounds like that's a lot of the work you were really trying to do ahead of time for the animals in the shelters.
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Yeah, you've got to be invested in the whole lot.
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As we all know and I'll probably get slapped for saying this A lot of people that work in animal and dog welfare are anti-human.
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They're like oh look, humans are terrible and I'm so glad I never get to spend any time with people and I'm like all right, get with me.
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Of course I understand what you're saying, but if you're working in a companion animal world, there's two parts of the equation there.
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It's an important part.
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You're missing out on the percent equation, which is a huge thing.
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You need to be able to say you're going to take this dog, let's talk.
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Let me tell you everything I know.
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Let's have a rapport, even if we're not going to go out from behind or whatever For the purposes of this environment.
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Let's talk and let's get to know each other and let's chew the fat and find out what your expectations are, and then I can help you to prepare.
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If you're jaded and you're anti-you, then you're missing a big part of the equation.
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You shouldn't be the first point of contact in a shelter because you can have this morbid idea of well, maybe the dog should stay in the shelter, it can spend a bit with that person.
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I just don't find that helpful.
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Having been in the environment, it's really easy to get jaded about people.
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Where I live, we have a lot of dogs that get dumped on the street or left out in the middle of an acre of trees, so it's easy to get jaded.
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But you're so right when we want a dog to be successful and someone's telling you what they need in a dog that helps, you know this isn't going to be the right dog for them, but maybe this one over here would be, and I can help you figure that out.
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So that relationship is really important.
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Yeah, exactly Of course.
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We're here to serve a purpose.
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And if you're going to get into this world, you need to realize you're going to see some gnarly stuff.
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You're going to see the worst of humanity and you're going to see the best of humanity.
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And that's just the reality.
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And if you don't like it, then don't do something else, because we need to be working together and pulling our resources.
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And some people aren't great at that side of it and that's fine.
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They can do other things.
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We just need to be working for the animal always.
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Absolutely so.
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Your work in Zambia what were some of your big takeaways or maybe your success stories there that really inspired you?
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Well, I love the kind of social aspect and I love the fact that you can surprise a lot of people.
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So we did some big fairs, outdoor fairs and music and food and dancing and stuff, and I would bring some dogs from the shelter to these fairs and traditionally, a lot of the people from Zambia they would look at a lot of the kind of oppressive white people as having dogs as a god or an aggressive thing.
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And luckily, when I was over there, that culture was shifting.
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People were becoming a lot more inclusive and you'd find that a lot of the Zambians were really interested to form a relationship with dogs for the first time and that was just gorgeous, just being in a place and watching people's fear dissipate in front of your eyes as you.
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Because when you're doing something like that and I teach in schools a lot you have to get the person to focus on, and I always say this when people are walking and they're a bit if they're worried about someone, I'm like don't think, okay, that's a certain breed and it's coming this way.
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Look at the relationship between that dog and the person that has it.
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How are they interacting together?
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Do they look like a unit?
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Are they looking at each other?
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Are they checking with each other?
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Is affection there?
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So if the person if I've got three, four dogs on a leash in a fair in zambia and I'm like super chilled and friendly and hey there, do you want to come and say hi?
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You don't have to look at my little tails wagging come and say hi.
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And if you can bowl them over with that kind of that kind of enthusiasm and you're just clearly in control, then you can really you can make a big impact on the way people see things.
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And that was a huge thing for me.
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It was like watching the culture generally shift almost in front of my eyes.
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And it's been a very similar experience in Greece as well, because in the seven years I've been here, the change in attitude has been unbelievable and that's the big thing to me.
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It's the cultural, sociological element of it as well as the microcosmic, just the dog thing.
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Yeah, I think that was the kicker for me and obviously just being in a beautiful country and getting to hang around with dogs all day, no, that sounds like such a powerful experience because for you to get to see firsthand that shift in people realizing these dogs are not just scary security beings, that they're actually soulful animals that want to be a part of your life and can connect with you in a way that a lot of people maybe have never experienced before, so that's really powerful yeah, absolutely so.
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Yeah, that's one thing you do recognize and you'll know this from your job that as much as we're different, we're the same and all people really need is just a really gentle helping hand, and you're generally telling people things that they already know you just.
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You just need a reminder or to have someone else say it.
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They often need a reframe sometimes, and the use of metaphor is very important in my work because it's about getting that framing in and the metaphors you use are different depending on the person you're speaking to.
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Right, it's always useful to have I've dealt with hundreds of people from so many different countries now.
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It's a lot of fun.
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It's a little game for me to try and work on little things that make the light bulb come on and I can almost see it happen and that's just a huge thing to me because I know that once they know certain things, they can't unknow them and you've changed everything just with getting the right, just saying the right thing at the right time.
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So that's a really fun game yeah, that's.
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It sounds like, yeah, there's a lot of moving parts, but it's really.
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It really something you really enjoy the process of getting all the pieces in the right place.
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Yeah, because no two jobs are the same.
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Absolutely Because, yeah, because no, two dogs are the same right.
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No, exactly.
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They're as idiosyncratic as we are.
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We compartmentalize things in life to help make sense of the word, to be honest, but in reality there's a lot going on.
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Bottom line is, it's all about getting the foundations correct, and, and and the kind of clarity that we have in our own mind is key to everything, because without clarity, we cannot expect anything that's connected to us, whether it be a person or a kid or a dog, to have a flu to what we want dogs pick up on our anxiety and fear and all those things really fast.
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Sometimes they pick up on it before we even realize we're having that feeling.
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So that can really impact your relationship with an animal if you don't realize that.
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You have to be aware of how you're feeling and how you're putting that off on the animal and your relationship.
00:16:57.937 --> 00:17:02.735
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Thanks for listening.
00:18:26.921 --> 00:18:28.152
Now back to this episode.
00:18:30.258 --> 00:18:38.006
So I've been working for the last year on a course and an app because I kept getting asked by organizations and individuals whether I crystallize some of this stuff.
00:18:38.006 --> 00:18:39.230
So I decided to make.
00:18:39.230 --> 00:18:41.056
I'm in the process of making that.
00:18:41.056 --> 00:18:44.413
In the next maybe three or four weeks it should come out in an app, an application.
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It's a free.
00:18:45.115 --> 00:18:46.278
It's a free resource.
00:18:46.298 --> 00:18:51.516
I want to give it to anyone who's interested in my teaching because it's just going to be like seven videos.
00:18:51.516 --> 00:18:53.336
It's more kind of about philosophy than anything else.
00:18:53.336 --> 00:19:08.238
There's a little bit of mechanics in there and stuff like that, but it's just basically saying look, just have this and this is my hippy-dippy style of human-dog relationships and it's worked all over the world and just have it, take it, watch the videos, and if it works, then I'm ecstatic.
00:19:08.238 --> 00:19:10.631
And how long does it take me to make a few videos?
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No time.
00:19:11.152 --> 00:19:19.751
And so I just thought that could be a gift, and when it comes out, I just want all the people that can't afford a dog trainer there's no one that lives near them.
00:19:19.751 --> 00:19:22.779
There's such a plethora of different information online.
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If you go on YouTube, you're going to get 10 different people telling you 10 different things.
00:19:26.013 --> 00:19:34.318
But it's really important to protect the dog, then people who are advocating fear and pain and stuff should be shown to be doing that, and it should be crystal clear.
00:19:35.751 --> 00:19:39.155
I just feel like there are fundamental truths that are not just necessarily about dogs.
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They're about relationships in general.
00:19:40.479 --> 00:19:47.854
You might talk to your best friend who might be in their 40s and they've fallen out with their husband and you might say have you tried talking to him?
00:19:47.854 --> 00:19:50.496
Do you have to tell that to an adult about someone that's been in?
00:19:50.556 --> 00:19:57.461
a relationship for 20 years Did you try talking to them about the thing and they're like oh, I didn't think of that, it's boneless.
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I want to create a resource for people, so I got involved with an organization called Inter Rescue, inter Dogs it's a famous dog training Inter Dogs, and I'm part of the Inter Rescue group as a kind of ambassador, because my approach in my work is it's not something you can study, because it's all about sociology, it's anthology and it's all about the relationship rather than the dog.
00:20:17.141 --> 00:20:23.121
You read hundreds of books, but if you want to do the kind of stuff that I do, you can't learn it really.
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You have to do it and see what fits for you.
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I think that's important.
00:20:27.395 --> 00:20:29.096
I think people think they can read a book.
00:20:29.096 --> 00:20:31.251
I think that's important.
00:20:31.251 --> 00:20:33.361
I think people think they can read a book or maybe, and they're like, okay, I get it.
00:20:33.361 --> 00:20:36.553
No, you've got to interact with the animal to learn it Because, like we've said, every animal is different.
00:20:36.553 --> 00:20:45.119
Every approach may be different, where they've come from, or you don't know where they've come from, and you've got to feel that and you become more comfortable once you have that actual physical interaction.
00:20:45.650 --> 00:20:48.733
Yeah, that's completely true, and we have to remember about the slightly more cerebral, abstract.
00:20:48.733 --> 00:20:52.698
Yeah, that's completely true, and we have to remember about the slightly more cerebral, abstract things when it comes to working with dogs, and that's what I'm really interested in.
00:20:52.698 --> 00:20:57.983
It's a bit like if you do something all the time, your instinct becomes more refined.
00:20:57.983 --> 00:20:59.726
I always think of it a bit like a muscle.
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If you don't use it, then it will atrophy and then you won't know how to act in a certain area.
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When you're working with dogs in a pack, or if you're out and you're doing training you need.
00:21:09.577 --> 00:21:15.232
If you get a tickle at the stomach that says something's not right, you better listen to that and you better be ready to stop it before it happens.
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Generally with dogs, you stop things before they happen you anticipate well you read the signals because they're whispering to us.
00:21:20.715 --> 00:21:28.219
They're whispering to us constantly and we need to learn how to listen to the whisper so we don't have to listen to them when they how or I'm really uncomfortable.
