The Power of Connection Between People and Horses

The Story of My Pet Podcast
Host: Julie Marty-Pearson
Guest: Emma Davis
Episode 23: The Power of Connection Between People and Horses

[00:00:04]
 Hello, hello, my friends. And I'm not even thinking clearly right now. Okay.
 
 [00:00:12]
 Hello, hello, my friends and fellow animal lovers. Welcome to another episode of the Story of My Pet podcast. I'm your host, Julie Marty Pearson, and I'm excited to welcome a new guest and her feline friend that happens to be joining us on video at the moment. Hi, Emma Davis. Welcome to the podcast.
 
 [00:00:32]
 Thank you for being here. Hi, thanks for having me. Okay, so as always, I'm going to tell you a little about Emma, and then we'll get into the conversation. So Emma is a lifelong animal person. She is the CEO and founder of Miko's Choice, which we'll be talking about.
 
 [00:00:52]
 She is also an animal rescuer and advocate by night. Miko Choice is her day job, and she does her best to rescue and advocate for animals by night. Well, thank you again, Emma, for being here.
 
 [00:01:07]
 It's nice to meet you, virtually. Yeah, you too. So let's start talking about you're, a lifelong animal person. When did your love of animals start? Or in terms of when do you really remember first having a love for animals?
 
 [00:01:24]
 Remembering is a good way to put it because I don't remember specifically when it started. It just has always they've always been in my life. You know, growing up as a kid, I've had guinea pigs and parakeets and bearded dragons and dogs and cats and all sorts of little critters. So it's really that's why I say it's been a lifelong journey because it started very young. That's great.
 
 [00:01:53]
 So was there a pet growing up for you that you really had a strong bond with or felt like they were really yours? Or was it not until you were older and had your own pets? A little bit of both growing up, I think, when you're a kid. I was also very into sports, and so there's just a lot going on in my life at a young age. And so I had a dog.
 
 [00:02:18]
 He was a corgi. His name was Link, and he was, I think, probably the catalyst for a lot of this. But as a family dog, he sort of got the short end of the stick a lot of times because we're a bustling family, and I was seven when we got him, and life happens. But I think he instilled in me a lot of what I do now. And so when I went to college, really, my first soul animal was a wolf hybrid that I rescued, and he was with me through college and some really tough times in life.
 
 [00:03:00]
 And if you knew me back then, it would be odd to see me without him because he just came everywhere with me. And so he is generally the first animal that I really think of having, like, that strong foundational bond with. Okay, what was his name? His name was Mo, and he was a wolf cross. So I think Grey wolf and a shepherd, and he belonged to a friend of mine up in the Trinity office of California.
 
 [00:03:34]
 I was working on a ranch there and his owner passed away. He was a mechanic, and Mo was just left chained to a truck in a field and somebody was going to feed him water and all that sort of stuff, but it didn't really happen. And he broke free of that chain and then was running through the mountains for months on end, just wild and feral and living his wolf life. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, he almost got shot because he was taking cattle down.
 
 [00:04:04]
 He had a very strong, very strong prey drive. He was very good at that, which is why I think he survived out there for so long until he got hit by a car. And that's when we met because my friends were the local vets there and they took him in and said, hey, we have this dog that I think you would really like. And turns out they were right. That's amazing.
 
 [00:04:27]
 You know, it might be shocking to some listeners to hear that somebody, he was left tied up to a car and people were just going to feed him. But unfortunately, that does happen. We both are in California, and especially in the more rural areas, animals are often found either left behind or have been tied up. And like you said, people move or they pass away. So it does happen.
 
 [00:04:52]
 Luckily, he found his way to help, so that's great. He didn't get left out there, especially getting hit by a car. Sometimes that's a hard thing to get through, especially if you're out in an area that's not highly populated. Exactly. Yeah.
 
 [00:05:11]
 Amazing. Well, he sounds like an amazing dog. So have you always worked on ranches? You mentioned that a few minutes ago. Is that part of your animal love?
 
 [00:05:26]
 Yes, definitely. I'm also an equestrian, and so most of the ranch work is based in that. That's how I started working for that place specifically, was to run their horsemanship program of it all, and Mo just happen to appear unexpectedly there. And yet, if you want to get into it a little bit, that same ranch is responsible for the horse that I have now, which is also quite the intricate story. And his name is Mikko, and he also inspired my company.
 
 [00:06:03]
 Got you. There we go. All the connections are happening. Yes. So tell us about Mikko and how you came to have him in your life.
 
 [00:06:14]
 Sure. So that was about, let's see, two years after Mo came into my life, and that ranch has a string of horses. It's a working ranch and a guest ranch as well. And so people come and we teach them how to ride and whatnot, and they needed some new horses for that job, so I was asked to go get one, and we agreed to get a wild mustang from the Bureau of land management and I would train them up to be used on the ranch. So I went to the corrals and when you go there, there's thousands of horses just standing around and the thing about them is they're totally wild, so they've never had interactions with humans.
 
 [00:06:59]
 You really don't know what you're going to get when you pick one of those horses out. So you're just going off of like feel for their personalities and confirmation, but it's really kind of shot in the dark. And so I ended up picking Miko out for a number of reasons and brought him back to the ranch and he was very sensitive and took a lot to build trust with. So I spent a lot of time sitting on the ground offering him food, just like giving him space to explore. And two months into that journey, I was thrown off another horse and actually broke my back.
 
 [00:07:37]
 Oh my gosh. And had to leave the ranch so that I could recover through emergency surgery and final fusion and my future was uncertain for a long time. So during my year long recovery, the ranch sold him because there was nobody there that was going to train him and they need a lot of work and consistent work and so I don't fault them at all for that choice. I think it made sense at that time and nobody could have foreseen what would happen to him, which was quite unfortunate. He ended up being bounced from home to home over the next two years and I'm not sure exactly what happened in that time frame.
 
 [00:08:23]
 I don't know who had him, but two years later he appeared on Craigslist. Oh no, super Random was not looking for him. And a friend of mine actually said, hey, this is the horse from the ranch. And when you look at a picture of an animal that you love, you just know. Right?
 
 [00:08:44]
 Right. So it was him and it helped that he has this big brand on his neck from the government to identify him. And I immediately responded to the ad and said, I'm coming to get him, that's my horse. And didn't really take it through, to be honest. Right, but what are you going to do?
 
 [00:09:00]
 So I drove the 12 hours to go get him and he was in bad shape physically. He was skinny, his coat was dull, he had masks in his mane and tail and all that, but were so his mental state. I had never seen a horse like that before. He would barely walk forward because he was so tense. Like he would take one little step, one little step and sort of make his way.
 
 [00:09:28]
 His eyes were just really wide and for. Of course, if you can see the whites of their eyes, that usually means that they're pretty freaked out. So those were showing and snorting a lot and just really on edge all around. But when he came around the corner to see me, he started walking very fluidly and pretty much ran in a fast walk to me and put his head in my chest. Oh, my gosh.
 
 [00:10:01]
 Before that, we hadn't interacted like that. I can just barely touch his nose. And he was definitely very scared of me before I left the ranch. And so to have him do that in that moment, I was like, whoa. The memory of a horse and the impression that you can give to them is huge.
 
 [00:10:22]
 I didn't fully understand it until that. Moment that's just hearing it is so powerful. I can only imagine being a part of that experience. He obviously went through some awful, horrible situations, but as soon as he saw you, he remembered the way you treated him. And that's just what an amazing bond.
 
 [00:10:47]
 Yeah. It's just mind blowing because from my perspective, we didn't really have an intense connection. So for him to remember, like, that was just crazy. And so then soon his issues started to appear because it took 6 hours to get him in the trailer because he was just so scared of life and all of that. And I finally got him home.
 
 [00:11:15]
 I realized at that point how in over my head I was with the stuff that he had gone through and that we would need to get through. And so I had a trainer help me, and he did a great job, but Mikko was like just and he was unhinged to the point where people were like, this horse is dangerous. I don't think that you should continue with this. Like, you need to send him to sanctuary, all this kind of stuff. But the thing was, it was just me and him.
 
 [00:11:47]
 He was very calm and very sweet, even though he wasn't comfortable being walked around. Like, I could just hang with him in his stall and he was okay. So I saw the potential there and thought to myself, even if we don't ride or whatever goal I have, if he can just be comfortable in his skin and we can just go for a walk, that's fine with me. Right.
 
 [00:12:18]
 You just wanted to give him his life back of being a person and not being anxious. Right, exactly. And the trainer got to the point where he could battle him, but it was very tense and he just didn't love it. And he ended up bucking that guy off and breaking his ribs, which is unfortunate because, like, I really do respect that man, we're friends today. But after that, it just sort of changes your mindset a little bit.
 
 [00:12:51]
 Understandably? Right. So we moved on and had somebody else help. And then Mikko tore his shoulder, separated his groin. When I say he had issues, he was explosive.
 
 [00:13:06]
 When he became uncomfortable, at that point, that trainer told me to just kill him because he was so dangerous. Yeah. And again, I still was like, I obviously see him doing that to you, but I just don't see that he wants to do that. I think he's just acting in fear. I think he wants to try.
 
 [00:13:30]
 And so at that point, I took over his training myself and spent another two years just taking it all back and working our relationship and using the sort of foundation that we have from these guys. And eventually we got to the point where I could get on and bear back in a halter and just cruise around. And from there we built up to where we are now, which is like, doing full on obstacle courses and working cattle, and we were all set to be mounted patrol officers, and then Covet hit and that fell apart. But he's made an insane transition in life, and now I use him to help other trouble forces and take them on their first trail ride and stuff. And it's just mind blowing.
 
 [00:14:25]
 Like, he's taught me so much. That is really incredible. Not only did you really save his life, but now he's a horse that can be an example for other horses. Yeah. Crazy.
 
 [00:14:40]
 I mean, today we just went on a trail ride and ponyed along another horse that was, like, being really anxious and on the trail. And as soon as we took him riding next to us, miguel was like, okay, we're working. And he was great. And then that horse had a great experience, and it just is so full circle, and, like, every time it happens, I'm, like, blown away. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of unbelievable in a way, but I think it is such a powerful and important story for you to tell because we hear about it more with, like, dogs and even cats that have behavior issues and people work with them.
 
 [00:15:22]
 That's why they end up in a shelter and stuff, but you don't hear it a lot with other animals. So I think that is amazing. Just like any animal, they are a product of their environment, their experience, their trauma, but that doesn't mean they can't still be an amazing animal, right? Yeah. And I think it's important for people to understand that just because an animal has these intense behaviors, it doesn't mean that they're doomed.
 
 [00:15:51]
 It doesn't mean that you need to give up on them. Or I think with horses specifically because they're so big and can be so dangerous and definitely was there's a greater tendency than dogs and cats just be like, okay, we need to euthanize or send the sanctuary. But I think the most amazing part of his story is showing people if you just hang in there and if you change your approach. I mean, I totally changed my horsemanship and training for this horse, and that's why I say he's, like my greatest teacher, because he forced me to do that. And in doing so, we've helped a lot more horses that way.
 
 [00:16:32]
 So I think just showing people there are other ways to do this and it can be done. It really just comes down to how much do you believe in it and do you want to try and give them a chance? Right, absolutely. No, I think it's very important. I can imagine with horses, they are dangerous in that way.
 
 [00:16:55]
 You've given several examples yourself to happen to you and that's the thing. But just because that happens once, that shouldn't define the horse. It's a behavior, and behaviors are products of experience and environment just like any of us. So it's so amazing that the two of you are able to move past that and work together. And for him to be your teacher in that way is also great because how many horses are going to be helped by you because of him.
 
 [00:17:28]
 Right, yeah, and that's like the greatest gift that he's given me. Really. For me, it's not about, oh, I can ride this horse and I can make him do what I want because that's not what we're doing. Like, it's a true partnership. And if there's a day because he still has some trauma, it takes an extra five minutes to saddle in and to get on.
 
 [00:17:49]
 He's always sort of going to have those issues. But I think it's also an important lesson for people that you can have quote unquote issues or things that make you nervous or anxiety. Pretty provoking, right, but you can also get through them and have a great time. Absolutely. I think yeah, that's so on task.
 
 [00:18:13]
 And I think sometimes even for people, we feel like we become defined by our trauma or our issues, whether it's depression or anxiety or whatever, but every small step forward is a way to overcome it. And you may never get past it fully, but you can, like you said, still enjoy life and be able to do things. Yeah. And absolutely. And it's also about some days maybe you're not going to be able to reach your goal.
 
 [00:18:42]
 Some days I'll take him out of the pasture with a goal to go on a trail ride, but he tells me otherwise because he saw mountain lion last night and he's like, oh my God, I just can't handle this today. And so then at that point, it becomes, okay, we're not going to do this big goal, but hey, could we put a saddle on? Could we maybe just go for a short walk? And if you're a human being that's very anxious to leave your house, like, okay, maybe it's just walking to your mailbox, right. And the next day you can go grocery shopping or whatever it's going to be.
 
 [00:19:18]
 So I think in a lot of ways, he has taught me also to be more empathetic towards people. Yes, absolutely. I think animals have that power because they're able to show us in a way we can't see always with other people. And I think that's so true. And I think that's so true of our relationship with any animal.
 
 [00:19:42]
 I know I follow some people who have reactive dogs who don't do well around new people, and so they really let the dog lead what they do. Like, do you want to go to the park today? And if they don't, OK, then that's not what we're doing today. Things like that. So it sounds like you're doing the same thing with Miko.
 
 [00:20:00]
 And it is so true. It's the same thing with us as people. We have to give ourselves a break, just like we give our animals a break. And we also have to tell people, if you give yourself a break, you should give your animal a break too. We're not perfect and none of us right.
 
 [00:20:19]
 Such a great example of that. So working with meco and having this amazing bond and transition, how did that move you into starting your company? Yeah, so when I first got him, he was incredibly anxious and on alert and all of that sort of behavior that goes with it. And at the time I was working in the cannabis industry in Los Angeles with my brother. We had started delivery service that was also born out of my experience with my wolf dog Mo, and my accident, because for me personally, after I broke my back, they put me on a bunch of opioids and that was a horrible experience for me.
 
 [00:21:02]
 And my brother suggested to try various tinctures and stuff for the nerve pain. And I didn't have a big appetite and all that. And cannabis really changed my recovery. It relaxed my muscles. The nerve pain eventually subsided and really made a big difference for me.
 
 [00:21:22]
 So that was my personal experience with it. And then a few months later that Wolfe Ridmo was diagnosed with hepatocellular carcinoma, which is fatal and like, very bad cancer. And he was given three to four months to live. So I elected to give him a CBD tincture as well. And he ended up going into remission and living for four more years.
 
 [00:21:45]
 Well, which was unheard of. And this was in 2015, so when California was under medical laws and people were not being vocal about giving it to their pests, it was very new for us in general, like as a mainstream thing. So to see my experience, my experience with him, I thought that there was something to do with this plant and animals and beyond, sort of what we knew at that point. And shortly after, Miko came into my life highly anxious. Yes.
 
 [00:22:20]
 And I thought, man, I would really love to give this to him. But at the time, we didn't really know about dogs, so we absolutely didn't know how to give it the horses right, what dose and how often, and all the things that go into play with that. So I sat on the idea for a while because it also just economically didn't make sense to give the pictures that were available to a horse at that time. Like, it would be astronomically expensive right. The amount you would have to give.
 
 [00:22:49]
 Right. So I kept the idea myself for a while and through working in that industry, I made connections with various manufacturers and found a way to make it into a pellet, which is better for a horse, because typically trying to get an oil into their mouth is very difficult and it would be hard. Yes. I just saw a lot of barriers to entry for people, so I thought if I could put it into a pellet, which is something that horses eat often, it might be easier. So that's what I did and named it after him.
 
 [00:23:24]
 Make this choice with him in mind, and I donate $5 from every sale to Animal Rescue as well. And so I started with just those eclime pellets and giving it to friends and family. Is this even going to work? And your horse is anxious. Your horse has this lameness, let's just try and experiment with the dose and stuff.
 
 [00:23:48]
 It was born that way and now I have the pellets and I have a proper tincture for horses, dogs, cats, pigs, anything. You can take it. And so that's why I say he inspired the company. That's amazing. So incredible.
 
 [00:24:04]
 I mean, first of all, just everything you've done with the animals and rescuing and being able to work with them, but to be able to harness your experience and what you've been able to do with Mo and Mikko into a company to help others is just really amazing and admirable for people who don't live in California. I know certain aspects of cannabis are different depending on what state you live in and everything, but now especially CBD has become widespread in terms of using it for not just people, but for animals as well. Right? Yeah, absolutely. And it was coming to life at a point where people were very hesitant about it.
 
 [00:24:49]
 But I've been in the space now for a long time, in 2015, and now the Miko's choice line is just hemp CBD so you can get it throughout the US. Which is nice. And it's honestly been pretty mind blowing to see what people come back to me with, because I'll be honest with you, it's not going to help everything. It's not a miracle here that people say it is. I think it's very useful for specific cases and you have to get the dose right and the product has to be high quality to have an effect.
 
 [00:25:25]
 So yeah, that's something that's really important to me as well. No, I think that's really important because it's become so widespread. There's so many options out there, it can feel overwhelming. But you really should educate yourself, whether it's for yourself or for an animal. I know personally, myself, I use DVD, I have autoimmune issues, chronic pain, and it doesn't make it all go away.
 
 [00:25:50]
 But it definitely helps me. It helps with relaxing, with reducing some pain, with anxiety, all those things. And it is really amazing what it can do for animals as well. Yeah. I mean, just Mo story that you started giving it to him and he lived four more years after a cancer diagnosis.
 
 [00:26:10]
 That's amazing. Yes. And I should say again, this is me just being very honest and transparent that that's an edge case. I was giving him CBD and THC. Okay.
 
 [00:26:24]
 For things like cancer, you really do need that THC, because the theory right, I can't say for sure is that the THC targets the cancer cells and the CBD brings down the inflammation associated with it. And a lot of people will say you can't give chv to dogs, and that's not fully true. You can give it to them. You have to give it to them in very small amounts, like one to two milligrams at a time, slowly over like week, build up their tolerance to it, which is what I did back then. But nowadays you can get THCA products, which is non psychoactive, as long as you keep it in your fridge, because if it heats up, then it's going to get activated and then your dog is going to get high.
 
 [00:27:14]
 That makes sense. Yeah. But if you do a THCA product, which would only be available in California or where it's recreationally allowed, then you can give your animal higher doses of THC, which is really beneficial for those cases. Wow, that's amazing. Well, it sounds like not only have you created this company, but you've really become an educator for the value of it, but also you can't just start taking it and it's all going to go away.
 
 [00:27:43]
 You have to find, like you said, the right kind, right dose and all of that. And that's such an important part of any wellness aspect. But especially with your pets, you don't want to cause them more problems than you by using it to help them with whatever they're going through. Right? Yeah.
 
 [00:28:03]
 They can definitely get high off THC. We've all seen it. Right. We all know that that's happening. But it is possible to give it to them in a controlled way.
 
 [00:28:13]
 It's just not widely known how to do that. Right. So in terms of your company, it's all online and available through the US. Is that what you had said? Yes, just Miko's choice.com and you can go check it out.
 
 [00:28:28]
 That's amazing. Yeah. I actually checked out your website before we recorded this episode, and I saw some of your client testimonials of what it's done for horses and other animals. And it's really amazing because you might think it's a small little niche, but it really isn't. I mean, that's a huge area for you to have explored and started to find options for people working with horses.
 
 [00:28:56]
 Yeah, definitely. And it's funny because I had looked at your info when we set up to record this episode. And then one of the people I follow on social media for the love of Smiley is someone I've followed for years and years. And they now have their own family farm and they have two horses and a donkey. And she was talking about one of their horses and his anxiety and her working with them.
 
 [00:29:23]
 And I'm like, hey, because she promotes CBD, she uses it with her dogs.
 
 [00:29:30]
 And so I thought, oh, wait, I just heard they have some courses. And so it's amazing the connections that happen once you learn new things like that. And so actually, I think I tagged you in a post of hers. Yeah.
 
 [00:29:46]
 So it's amazing. I think what I love about one of the reasons I started this podcast is the animal community is so collaborative and supportive and we're able to help each other find new ways to make our lives better and our animals lives better. So I think it's just great that it's like, oh, wait, yeah, people have horses sanctuaries, like you mentioned, there are a lot of sanctuaries in California who rescue abandoned, abused animals from farms, from ranches, from people's homes when they've taken them in and can't take care of them. I'm sure your products are a great option for them and working with new animals. Yeah, absolutely.
 
 [00:30:33]
 It's funny, I thought that you commented that and I thought how awesome it was because we hadn't even done this yet. And so it's true, there's a lot of power in community and referrals and that's honestly how my business has grown, because advertising for CBD is very tricky. Even though you can sell it, the advertising of it, they haven't quite worked out the best way to do that. And certain companies and businesses have their own sort of stigmas about it and they don't want to advertise. So a lot of it is word of mouth and testimonials.
 
 [00:31:14]
 And I personally think that's the best way to get the word out there because there's actually like, value in it and people truly believe in what you're doing. It's not just like the Target ad that comes at you and you're like, no, I don't know. Absolutely. And I think that's one of the good things. Social media isn't always good, but when you have that community and you find it and you continue to add people to it, it is a way you're educating people, you're giving them options.
 
 [00:31:42]
 And like you said, word of mouth is the best way for any company. And especially because then you can have that one on one relationship where you can really help them with the understanding of how to use it and in what way. It is amazing. And I'm very happy that we have that because there are so many of us starting small businesses that want to help animals, that want to rescue and save them. And so this is why I started.
 
 [00:32:09]
 This podcast, I can say again. So, yeah, it's really amazing. Yes, I agree. So, speaking of animal rescue, you mentioned three different organizations that you wanted to talk about. So all seated in a barn is one of them.
 
 [00:32:29]
 Yes, they are a very large equine rescue based out of Bakersfield, California. And I've watched them grow for a while. And what I really love about them is they go into the trenches. And what I mean by that is there are equine auctions across the United States that happen every week, every month. And depending on the ones that you go to, those horses there will be shipped across the border to Mexico or Canada and ultimately slaughtered for their meat hides.
 
 [00:33:06]
 And those things will be sent across the world. And it's a big issue. And a lot of times the horses end up there in very bad shape. They'll be skin and bone, they'll be lame, which means they're like, hurt their leg somehow and they can't walk properly. Or also they're perfectly fine horses that people just don't want anymore for a long list of reasons.
 
 [00:33:33]
 And so they get sent to these options because you can guarantee as an owner that you will make some money off of your horse. And that's an unfortunate way to go about it. But the reality is that they happen. You're not going to put an end to it. It's going to take a lot of legislation to do that and a lot of awareness.
 
 [00:33:56]
 And so all Sedona Barnes does both. They try to educate people about this industry and that this is happening. Because if you're not a horse person, and even if you are, a lot of people don't know what's happening in extremes at which is happening. So they try to get that message out on social. And they also physically go to the auctions.
 
 [00:34:17]
 And I've been to these auctions too, and have pulled horses from them. And it is inexperienced. It's very hard to do. It's emotionally draining. And you can see it like the founder, Talia is on her phone all the time, like just crying and sharing the raw truth of it.
 
 [00:34:36]
 And it's hard to watch, but I think people need to see it because we need to know what's happening. And they also show the horse in the auction all the way to where it ends up. So eventually their rescue and their home and how they're doing in that home and sort of like Mikko's story, I think it's important to show people that you can see this horse in the auction yard and it's skinny, it has something wrong with its leg or its teeth or what have you. It just looks in really rough shape and then you just spend some time and now it's turned into this amazing horse that you can ride or just have in your pasture and whatnot. So I just really love their messaging and the way they go about it and how hard they work at it.
 
 [00:35:27]
 Yeah, no, it sounds like an amazing organization. I have to say I'm sad because I live in Bakersville, California, born and raised here and it's not one that I was aware of. So I'm definitely going to add their social and promote them and get to know them better because it is so important. I think that I've heard a little bit recently in the news about people learning about the horse slaughter and going to Mexico. But in general, it's not something that's widespread known about if you're not a horse person in some way or happened to know about it.
 
 [00:36:05]
 And here in California, we have so much agriculture, so many people have farm animals, ranch animals, and or they'll get one and realize how expensive it is to take care of them or whatever, and so they end up in these slaughters. And I do follow some rescues and sanctuaries where they do post the video and it's just awful to see the state that the horses, the cattle, the sheep, the pigs are in. Yeah, but like you said, just because they look a certain way in that moment doesn't mean they can't be brought back to health, sometimes easily because there aren't huge issues, but it's having the means to be able to take care of them. Yeah, and that's huge. As you said, it's a commitment.
 
 [00:36:47]
 There's a lot of money involved in time and effort and that's something that all seasonal barn gives to all these horses. They also put in training on their horses, which seems to be like, yeah, of course you would train it, but I can't tell you how many horse rescues there are. But don't put in the training. Like they have a resident trainer there who, if the horse can be ridden and work, will put in the time on them or at least evaluate them to see where they're at. And it's very hard to adopt a horse.
 
 [00:37:23]
 A lot of people just go purchase one because they know it's history, they know that it can do this and that. With these auction horses, you have no idea. It's a blank slate. But they put in that training works to get to know them and to increase the chance that A, they'll get adopted and be able to stay in that home because they have a good foundation or whoever adopts them knows what they're getting into. And that is also huge and something that a lot of equine rescues do not do.
 
 [00:37:51]
 And I think why it's hard for those rescues to adopt out, whereas I'll see it in a barn. I mean, it's amazing. They go to this auction every month in Texas. It's the first weekend of every month and she goes live from it. So beginning the month I get ready because it's happening and she rescued anywhere from like 20 to 50 horses.
 
 [00:38:12]
 And you just think to yourself, how are you getting that many every month. It's crazy. But they're also adopting out nearly that many every month also because they're putting in this work to them and that's huge. And again, it's something that is quite rare in the efile world. Yeah, I can imagine.
 
 [00:38:33]
 It's kind of like what we hear about with fostering with cats and dogs and other pets when they're put in a home, then the people fostering them can see their personality, how they react around people and other animals and all those things. And I can imagine some sanctuaries don't have that ability because all they can either afford to do or have time to do is just feed and take care of the animals physically. So it sounds like all season and barn is really great because they're doing that behavior work. They're doing that fostering level where they get to see who the horse really is and find the best fit home. Yeah, absolutely.
 
 [00:39:10]
 And they also, since you live in Bakersfield, there's a lot of open barns so you can go and see what they're all about. You can walk around, meet the horses, you can volunteer if you want. They just do a lot of events. Also, they don't really have to do a rescue but support the community, right? No, that's great.
 
 [00:39:32]
 I'm definitely going to be on their social and more about them because I know they're so close. Okay, you mentioned a couple of other organizations. Can you tell me more about Return to Freedom? Yes, return to Freedom is a wild horse specific sanctuary. So what that means is they only deal with horses that have been on Bureau of Land Management land or Free and wild out on the range.
 
 [00:40:02]
 And they have been around for many years. I've known them personally from high school age until now. And what I love about them is not only do they offer sanctuary to I think we have about 500 horses right now out on thousands of acres. Wow. But they also are heavy on the advocacy part of it.
 
 [00:40:26]
 So they go to Washington, DC. And they interact with Congress and say, hey, how can we work together to achieve this goal or that goal? And they work on things like wild horse management, which is very controversial, and also the slaughter pipeline, which ties into like what all feed in the Barn does. Because a lot of times these wild horses, even though legally they are supposed to be protected from this, they do end up going through the auction rings and eventually over the border to Mexico to be slaughtered. And so Return to Freedom puts in a lot of time and effort into doing this.
 
 [00:41:05]
 And a lot of times it seems to be behind the scenes because their social outreach is not the best because they're in the trenches doing the work. Right. And so I actually just recently signed on to help them change that and to increase their social awareness and to help the public understand and digest these sort of complex issues that are going on and present it in a way that is not biased, it's just factual. Because the wild horse issue is very with all rescue emotional and people get very, like, just there's so many opinions and nobody can think straight. And the government is not going to make change based on an emotional response.
 
 [00:41:59]
 You have to have facts and you have to have clear solutions that are based in those facts and science and things that work with all the stakeholders because it's very complicated. Right. And that's what they do. And again, like, I'll see you in the barn. It's rare for a wild horse sanctuary rescue advocacy group to have that lens on things.
 
 [00:42:22]
 You know, they don't make the government the bad guy instead of, hey, how can we work together and improve this? Which is also what Peter and Barn is trying to do about the industry right now. I think it's so important because there are so many rescues or sanctuaries. They may be small and they only have so much capacity and they may not have the ability for that kind of advocacy and interaction in levels where it would actually make change that would trickle down to what they're doing. And also, like you said, just the social impact.
 
 [00:42:54]
 Not everybody running a rescue knows how social media works or how to get the message out there, any of that. So anybody listening? If there's a rescue, whether it's one of the ones we're talking about today or somewhere else, offer to help them in any way. You don't even necessarily have to help rescue the animals. Like you said, you can help post them on social media and that's a huge help to them because they only have so much time in the day.
 
 [00:43:18]
 Exactly. Yeah. And that's the case with Return to Freedom and why I'm really excited to officially join them and help with that awareness because ultimately it just helps the horses. Absolutely. That's great.
 
 [00:43:33]
 Okay, and you mentioned one other rescue based in Los Angeles, a purposeful rescue. Yes, they are a dog rescue in Los Angeles. They focus on senior dogs and extreme medical cases. They pull dogs from the high kill county city shelter. And what I love about them is they will take a dog that has like, no hair, has a broken leg, like it's blind in one eye, and they're just like obsessed with that dog.
 
 [00:44:12]
 Good for them and rightfully so. But they're not going to pull the little puppy that is just like a fluff ball that obviously people love unless it's like sick and going to die, then they'll save it. But they really focus on dogs that are hard to adopt. And they will like, if the dog has a behavior problem, they will spend the money and put it in training to give it that better chance at life. And so I used to live in Los Angeles and volunteered with them first because when I had Mo, that Wolffire, she was very dog selective.
 
 [00:44:53]
 So I couldn't foster at the time. So I would just volunteer with them, help out events, do transport from the shelter to the vet. And whatever I can do, I would do. And then once Mo passed away, I started to actually foster for them. So I have indepth knowledge about their foster program.
 
 [00:45:14]
 And that is important too, because a lot of rescues will have foster programs but then they kind of like weed you on your own, right? And all of a sudden you have a dog and maybe it has his medical meat or it has this behavior thing and the rescue is just like, well, good luck to you. Thanks. That happens a lot. But a purposeful rescue absolutely does not do that.
 
 [00:45:38]
 They try and match as best as they can foster to the dog. Of course, when you pull a dog from a shelter, you don't really know what you're getting, right? But if they can sort of work it out, they will. And if the foster has a problem, they're gonna jump in there and help you and they'll support you, whether it's providing like a special diet for the dog. We had a dog for a while that was very reactive.
 
 [00:46:05]
 And so, you know, they put me in contact with a trainer to help and yeah, they're just very on top of it. They're very organized. They have so many spreadsheets, very dedicated volunteer network, and they just put in the work and they're smart and they're organized about it and they have the funding. And I just really appreciate that because it can be rare also. Yeah, it can't be.
 
 [00:46:33]
 A lot of people try to start rescues, but it can be overwhelming dealing with everything, the logistics, the shelters, the rules and regulations. But it's so important. Like you said, senior dogs, dogs with medical issues. You know, they're the ones that don't get adopted out of shelters and so often they're the behavior issues too. And they're often the ones that get put on the Euthanasia list because of that.
 
 [00:47:00]
 And so it's so important. And I know there are a lot of great rescues in California. We have one in Bakersfield called Marley's Mutts that does a lot of the same work. And I know they work with other rescues in other areas. They may even work with a purposeful rescue.
 
 [00:47:16]
 But another aspect of these groups is they coordinate their efforts. Like they help each other out and they transport and we can transport the animals here, transfer them other places. But what he said is so important fostering is a huge help because we can see the animal in a more natural environment in a home, whereas in a shelter they're in a cage. And it's just not necessarily who they are, but having that support and training and have the things you need as a foster is very important. So it sounds like they're a great organization.
 
 [00:47:53]
 Yeah, and I also like because of that, they give their fosters the priority to figure out what home is the best for the dog. So like a purposeful rescue will field the applications and just sort of like filter them down and then they will present the foster with this home. This home, what do you think is best? And then as a foster, you go meet these people with the dog, form your opinions, and you ultimately, and a lot of the time, choose that home. Because as the foster, like you said, you know the animal.
 
 [00:48:24]
 And the people who run Purposeful Rescue, although they care and love for these animals, they don't know them in a way that a foster does. And so they tend to trust those recommendations. And I have said this is not a good home for this dog and they'll be like, okay, and then we find somebody else. Absolutely. I think that's so important.
 
 [00:48:42]
 I mean, fostering doesn't work if all the work you've put in isn't listened to or you don't find the right match, inevitably that ends up back in the shelter. That's what we're all working to avoid. So yeah, it sounds like it's a very amazing organization for people to check out, to look into, helping, maybe even fostering for, because trust me, all organizations are always looking for more fosters. Yeah, and like you said earlier anyway, to help socially volunteering at events during the transport, all of that is crucial and needed across the board. Yeah, and right now we're in a time where animal rescue across the board is in overdrive, all shelters, sanctuaries are at capacity and over and so anything you can do, whether like for me, my local shelter this past week, I went in for 2 hours and helped clean the cat and kitten cages.
 
 [00:49:42]
 Amazing. And it may not seem like a big deal, but it is a big deal because then that 2 hours the staff can be doing something else. So any of this, anything you can do to help matters. And it sounds like, I mean, you're doing so much for animals.
 
 [00:50:00]
 I mean, not only your own animals like Miko, but helping to educate and spread something that's really important with the CBD and THC. It's such an important area for us to learn about and be able to support our animals, to help them with their psychological and physical ailments. And then also you do a lot of amazing rescue work yourself. So I'm really glad that we connected and I could help share your story, especially in terms of horse rescue so that people can get educated and understand more about it. Yeah, thank you.
 
 [00:50:37]
 I really appreciate that. Not a lot of people know about the horse side of this world, I think. Absolutely. So in the show notes you will have Emma's contact and all her information, as well as how to learn more about Miko's choice and if that might be the right option for you with your pets or other animals, as well as the organizations we've discussed. All of their social media will be linked in the show notes and any posts I make.
 
 [00:51:04]
 I'll tag everybody so everybody can learn more. And I just want to thank you so much for being with me today, Emma. I learned a lot and that's always said that if I learned it, then I have a feeling a lot of my listeners are learning things they didn't know about. So I appreciate you being here and what you're doing for your animals and animals in need. Yeah, thank you so much for all that.
 
 [00:51:28]
 It's been really fun to chat with you. Absolutely. Okay, listeners, I will see you next time time.